I was just wondering if anyone goes to the trouble of annealing their cases after they reform them (i.e. 223rem to 300aac), and what method they use to do it?
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I was just wondering if anyone goes to the trouble of annealing their cases after they reform them (i.e. 223rem to 300aac), and what method they use to do it?
Anyone...?
Nope, not I.
I run em till the neck splits or the case head falls apart, or there's a blowout.
Hmm, I was told they would have to be annealed before loading... So they can be effectively loaded a few times without annealing?
I have never gone to the bother of annealing. I have some .45 I must have reloaded 30 times and they are still good. I haven't shot enough rifle yet, since most of my rifles are like WW II milsurps and old milsurp ammo is still as cheap as reloading them. But the few I have reloaded, yeah, I shoot them till they crack, then toss 'em.
I have never done it, but probably will when I convert my .284 Winchester to 7.5 Swiss (if I don't trade it first). The method I was going to use I read in the book The ABCs of Reloading. The author takes a boiler and puts water in it up to the point where he wants to anneal. Then he sets some cases in the water (standing upright). He hits one case with a propane or butane torch. When he heats it sufficiently, he then knocks it over into the water. I don't have the book in front of me, but if you want more detail I can probably scan in that portion of the text and email it to you.
Ed
Hmmm, may have to shoot my 3 Swiss rifles more. But I went ahead and splurged and got new cases for the first reloads. I hate when the headstamps say one caliber but it was converted to another. I have some 8mm Mauser made from .270 like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarEagleEd
You have to be VERY careful if you **DO** anneal any brass. And, only ever anneal the necks only on rifle brass. NEVER (and I do mean NEVER) anneal any pistol brass. Annealing pistol brass will make them too soft, and they will become BOMBS.
If you are going to anneal rifle brass, be sure to only anneal the neck area that touches the bullet. DO NOT anneal the main body of the brass. The discoloration that you see on some military brass is heat "wicking" from the neck area only. Only the neck that holds onto the bullet should be annealed.
Here's what I tell students:
" If you only have 5 pieces of brass to your name........... you'll find some way to keep them going. However, if you have a good supply, just keep reloading until they split or otherwise fail"
I have never annealed a single piece of brass to reload it. And, that's tens and tens of thousands over the years.
I just formed 4.000+ pcs of 5.56 into 300 BLK and ater all the work involved, was planning on annealing them to get them to last as long as possible. It's an awful lot of work just to shoot them once or twice and have them split.....and I actually had a couple of hundred with shoulder cracks just from reforming. Not old brass like you might think but Lake City 2011/12/13 1x fired 5.56. Plus I have at leeast 1,000 pcs of 1x in the other 10 or so calibers that I reload that I would eventually anneal.
I have been planning for a couple of years on getting one of Doug Girard's but just haven't taken the time to order one, But lately, I've been thinking that with all of the factory loads I still have from back in the early 2000's before I started reloading plus all of the brass I presently have on hand PLUS all the 1x fired that I still pick up at the range from other shooters, I will probably never shoot any of it enough to ever really warrant spending the $500.00 for the annealer.....much less enough to split the neck.
That Giraud would definitely be neat (coolness factor 100) to have and I do already have 2 of Doug's trimmers that I have trimmed 10's of 1,000's of pcs of brass with (20,000+ in .223/5.56 alone) but I'm probably gonna end up not getting one or even bothering to anneal, like Duke said.
Yeah, I guess 223/5.56 brass is starting to become common again, so there will be plenty of it around to make into 300aac when I go that route... Plus any 223/5.56 that I damage or split can be cut and sized too, so I guess it feeds itself.
I have read somethin about dipping the necks in yur lead pot working perfect. I never saw anything about actual temp though
I don't have a lead pot, and I've read that dipping them in it can be pretty dangerous.
I anneal cases on my wildcat calibers and a couple of my “hard to find brass for” calibers.
Years ago, I used the old school method of a pan of water sitting on a lazy susan and rotating the whole contraption with a case sitting in the water up to the shoulder.
After watching a couple you tube vids like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi3OoeYUPec
This is the way I do it now except I use a corded drill on low rpm.
Works great and is very fast and cheap.
Hope this helps.
Jeff
PS Yes I plan on annealing my blk out brass.
First do not dip your brass in hot lead to anneal them, it is dangerous and takes way too much time..
It is well worth the time to anneal which saves your brass. Shooting, sizing and then loading your brass causes the brass to work-harden which eventually leads to the structural death of your brass.
If wildcatting, (example when you take 308 brass and make it into 22-250 brass) you should always anneal your brass BEFORE and AFTER you change the placement (move) the shoulder or if you size up or down calibers as changing the neck dimensions of the brass this much will speed up the work-hardening (make brittle) of your brass and will shorten if not ruin your brass life before you get out of the gate.
I noticed another loader mentioned that he had several failures (spits) of his brass casing while changing them dimensionally from one caliber to another without annealing. What about the ones he did not notice that could have had internal structual damage or will split or do something worse on firing? I hope you are reading this...........everyone should learn annealing if they want to save hard to find brass or to just improve their accuracy if for no other reason your safe shooting of your loads.
One other advantage you get from fresh annealing (softening) of your brass is a constant grip of your bullet which equates to accuracy. Many long-long range shooters anneal their brass after just one loading. It saves brass, wins matches and just looks puuuurrrdddy, not to mention makes sense!
I have been annealing brass casings for many years (40+), it takes less than 20 minutes to do 100 plus 22-250 brass which makes the brass sooooooooo....... much better. I live for accurate ammo and annealing is just one more step to winning matches and/or taking your next big game animal.
I will not address the detailed operation for annealing due to liability reasons, but check on line there are several videos and articles to enlighten you! It is easy!
Rich
"One is never to old to learn, education is evolution"!
Understandable, the method I am most likely to try involves a propane torch, drill with deep well socket big enough for the case head, and a pan of water. Am I in the right ballpark?Quote:
Originally Posted by renofish
I have been using the lazy suzan method. Works for me. As for reforming from one case to another, all if the directions I have seen start with annealing the brass first, and if the brass is reformed enough, giving the brass a fresh one. Why put all that work into not taking care of it?
Yes, a drill with some carrier that will allow you to dump out instantly will work. Torch only the neck while spinning will give an even color change. You do not need to dump in water. A pan to collect them in will work just fine. Check the videos on line, such as YouTube for guidance.
I do it when I reform cases. Prior to making a 30-06 into a 7,7 Jap or Mauser case I anneal, then when the reform is completed and trimmed, I do it again . I once had to do it to two entire boxes of once fired 308 Federals,they simply wanted to split when put into the die,regardless of lube, they were just uber hard to begin with.
Hmmm... I'm on about my 5th or 6th load with some federal 308 brass, but ive only been neck sizing after the initial firing from that rifle. A few primer pockets are getting kind of loose, but the necks seem to be holding up well.
Yes, many of you shooters re-loaders do not want to learn the simple process of annealing. I understand that most re-loaders overlook or just ignore this, because of time restraints or are not concerned or aware of the MANY benefits annealing has in your shooting. And many shooters only reload their brass one or two times, because they may shoot maximum pressure loads, which leave their brass primer pockets loose and case base stretched or worse and are then thrown away. Whatever your reason I do not want you to think that I am attacking you or that I think you are wrong for not annealing your brass. I am writing this to point out to the uninformed shooters that there are many benefits to annealing ones brass. Of course not all types of shooting or some pistol brass does not lend itself to annealing or in fact may not be advised. But for most rifle shooters and some pistol shooters there are several good reasons to learn this process and expand your educations on the possibilities from annealing.
Also let’s get this clear, “not all brass is not equal”! There are many types, some steel, some plated and still some unknown metals to include aluminum---none of these should be annealed.
Some of you can get many loadings with your brass, others just as little as one before experiencing case failure (a split neck or shoulder) without annealing. There are many factors that contribute to the life of brass!
Let's look at one fact in the bench-rest circle which helps explain my point. *Do not get closed minded and think this is only for one type of shooter or shooting competition sport and not for the hunter or occasional target shooter.
Do you know that many Bench Rest shooters, shoot as few as 12 pieces of brass, over and over again from their bench-rest gun before the guns barrel is considered no longer accurate (1000 round or less) before the brass and barrel are retired. Now that is close to 100 firings from one piece of brass! There are several reasons for such long life for your brass.
1) THEY ANNEAL THEIR BRASS OFTEN-which translated in removing most of the work hardening that "does" take place when you shoot your ammo. Annealed brass results in the shooter having consistent neck hold (tension) on your bullet being held in the case-this leads to optimum small groups.
2) These BR shooters have minimum chambers cut in their guns. Chamber with fitted necks (chamber barrel necks that are as small as one thousand over a loaded round). When shot each case expands and contracts to exacting (clone) dimensions which in most cases allow the shooter to reload after firing WITHOUT ANY SIZING (that also means, not neck sizing, not distortion from sizing) before reloading, hence resulting in brass that has maintaining its original hard/soft properties, that fit the chamber like a glove, which maintains constant neck tension and optimal bullet to bore alignment, which translate to a good start to in your accurate placement to target of the fired bullet.
3) These shooters do not shoot excessive hot loads, but mild to medium hot loaded ammo. This further results in the case body, neck and should do not undergo excessive hammering (violent expansion) when fired (aka: work hardening). Hence, no stretched casings on loose primer pockets, just clones of one another which are what most BR shooters want to achieve with their bench rest quality ammo.
4) I have many other things I could add hear, but I have left enough information for some of you to digest at this moment.
I have the Giraud annealing machine. It works like a dream. I only anneal rifle brass. If you are into accuracy, neck tension is more consistant with annealed brass. Your brass will last a lot longer if it is annealed regularly. Some shooters anneal everytime they size the brass. The best suggestion I can make is" try it for yourself". I wrote this before reading renofish's post. What he said.
Thanks for the posts. I have a 250-3000 that make a lot of brass for from 22-250. I think this could help with brass life. I just wasn't sure how much I could do it. Thanks all!